The Cluttered Path
I planned my whole life out when I was 18 and NONE of it happened the way I drew it up. I'm 54 now: Former Marine Sergeant, engineer, tech sales guy, husband, dad, still in therapy, still working a corporate job, and still figuring this out. The Cluttered Path is the conversation I wish someone had with me at age 28. Career advice that isn't LinkedIn nonsense. Money talk without the crypto bros. Mental health without the eye-rolling. Faith without self-righteousness. Leadership lessons from a guy who's made ALL the mistakes so you don't have to. If your dad wasn't around, wasn't the talking type, or just couldn't relate to the world you live in, pull up a chair.
The Cluttered Path
#21 Brandon Held - From Childhood Trauma, Poverty, and Divorce to a Life of Fulfillment
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What happens when childhood trauma becomes your greatest teacher? Brandon Held's life story reads like a manual on resilience -- growing up in poverty, living with an abusive, alcoholic stepfather, losing his infant daughter, multiple failed marriages, surviving a suicide attempt, and emerging not just intact but mentally resilient and determined to help others.
Brandon's candid conversation reveals how he broke generational cycles of addiction and abuse. His military service was a good starting point in life while also exposing him to leadership - both exemplary and toxic - that shaped his understanding of human connection.
The most powerful moments come when Brandon discusses his relationships. After three failed marriages and numerous betrayals, he learned to establish boundaries and recognize genuine connection. This clarity came at a tremendous cost, including a suicide attempt following a devastating period where he simultaneously lost his wife, children, job, and home while burdened by crushing debt.
Where to find Brandon: https://linktr.ee/brandonheld
_____________________________________
Resources from This Episode:
The Happiness Hypothesis, by Jonathan Haidt https://amzn.to/47ZSLzY
As an Amazon Partner, our podcast earns from qualified purchases at no extra cost to you.
________________________________________________________________
📫 Where to Find Us:
Web: https://clutteredpath.com/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/clutteredpath
Questions/Comments: feedback@clutteredpath.com
_________________________________________________________________
🔥 Follow us on Social Media:
Welcome
ToddThis is the Cluttered Path , a compass for midlife .
Introduction
ToddHe spent years dealing with childhood trauma I mean , we're talking pain that leads a lot of people to harm themselves . But as an adult , he didn't just learn how to cope . He found a way to turn his scars into some of his greatest strengths , and this story will make you rethink everything you know about overcoming struggles and healing . Today I'm talking to Brandon Held about his life story and the path that led him to fulfillment as an adult . Brandon , welcome to the show .
BrandonThank you for having me . I appreciate it . Good to have you here , man .
ToddSo before we get into the discussion , we'll start with a brief bio on Brandon . He grew up without a father in an alcoholic , drug-fueled environment . He watched his mother just get constantly abused by his stepdad . He escaped that life by joining the military twice and he actually went to college twice . He's been divorced three times and is presently on his fourth marriage . He has three sons and he's worked as a bartender , a personal trainer , salesman , government contractor , and he even worked in the aerospace industry . He's been suicidal and even attempted suicide . Today , brandon's mission is working with people who've experienced trauma and difficult circumstances . Now his goal is to help them grow , heal and live meaningful lives . And he's also a longtime and diehard Ohio State Buckeyes fan and he hosts the podcast Life is Crazy .
BrandonAnd you can add one more podcast to that Buckeye Battle Cry . So yeah , I just started that it's a new podcast . So now I'm a host of two podcasts .
ToddExcellent , man , that is cool . Yeah , so we'll just dump right in . Man , I'll just get started with the questions .
Childhood
ToddSo let's start with your childhood man . Can you tell us about that and how that shaped you ?
BrandonYeah , it's one of those childhoods where I grew up in a small town in Ohio . It was my norm , right , it was normal to me , quote unquote normal to me . I knew it was different than everyone else's , but I didn't feel traumatic at the time . But , yeah , I grew up poor . By the time my mother had me at 16 , by the time she was 18 , she had me and my sister , and now she was a single mom at 18 years old . So you can imagine she wasn't prepared for that or a life like that , and so she , of course , was finding a way to survive and be supportive .
BrandonAnd she met my stepdad , who is the father of my brother , who's 10 years younger than I am , and he was an alcoholic and a biker and he was just abusive . He would beat her up and all that stuff in front of me , and we didn't have food a lot of times . Some days my only meal was the free lunch that I got at school . So , yeah , I'm six foot one and I was like 150 , 155 pounds at 17 years old when I finally did get out of the house . So I was super scrawny and , yeah , I just knew it was an environment that I wanted to be in and I needed to get out of it as soon as I could .
ToddOh man , that's rough . People talk about substance abuse and they kind of look at people and they couch it in terms of they almost call them victims . You know , but it's what I saw growing up with people that were just wrapped up in that substance abuse man , these weren't nice people , man , it was bad .
BrandonYeah , and you know , alcohol , drugs that's poison , it's toxic to your body , right ? So whatever your , whatever your own brain is already doing to yourself , you know cause ? My sister and my brother actually followed in the footsteps of the rest of my family and they became alcoholics and drug addicts , and it's the victimhood mentality that led them down that path . Oh , I'm from this crappy family , this is the life I'm going to have , because this is where I am from , and I would always look at him and be like hello , I'm your older brother , I've never drank , I've never smoked , I've never done any drugs . I'm college educated . So what do you mean ? This is the life you have to have . You don't have to have that life . You chose that life .
ToddRight , it's like crabs in a bucket . In many cases it's a vicious cycle , man , and people kind of look at the poor , as you know , talking about the noble poor in these like honorable senses , and I'm just like , no , I didn't really see that . Being poor , it stinks , it's embarrassing , it hurts , and just because someone's poor doesn't mean they're a nice person . So we have our choices , yeah .
BrandonWell , it's actually usually the opposite , but we are fortunate , right . We live in the greatest country in the world . We just do . I know we have our faults and I know things you know , as older men , are trending in the wrong direction in this country and could be better . But we still live in a country where you can come from nothing and still just get out of that and break those curses and generational cycles and not only turn your life around but turn your kids' lives around and their kids , and we're very lucky . You can't do that in every country .
ToddYeah , I mean my brother-in-law . He's Cuban , he grew up under communism and he escaped . He had to get help to get out but he escaped . And man , I just love immigrant stories . Man , people come here and just do well , because they're like it's like Disneyland , it's like all this stuff . But we're kind of used to it and a lot of times we just get bitter and resentful man and we don't really take advantage of what's here for us .
BrandonYeah , and a lot of people look for that free handout .
BrandonYou know they want to have to do the work that it takes to get to where you need to be Right . Yeah , sure , some people are born with the silver spoon . Their parents and their grandparents and all that they had already did all that hard work and they made their lives a little easier so they had an easier walk into success in life . But luckily in America you can work hard and you can get educated or you can become a business person . Whatever it is that you have the talent to do , you can turn that talent into success in life . And a lot of people just don't want to do the work . They just want things handed to them , right yeah .
ToddAnd when you get into that place and I saw it , I grew up poor , I mean , I grew up in trailer parks and stuff into that place and I saw it , I grew up poor , I mean , I grew up in trailer parks and stuff . And when you get into that place where you're bitter and you've just been told that you've been put in this place by other people and you've been given an enemy to hate , when you get to that point , man , it is so hard to change that mentality and get out of that . And it takes people intervening for you with you to get you out of that mentality . Because I had it , man , I hated rich people and pretty much anybody that lived in a house attached to the ground . They were rich to me .
BrandonMan , I just never bought into it . I just had this . I don't know if I was arrogant or stupid , maybe a little bit of both , but just when I was young , I just always said this isn't the life I'm going to live , like what I see going on around me this alcoholism , this drug use , this you know life sucks . You know I hate work and getting up every morning because life sucks . Right , I knew I was going to have a different life . I didn't know how , you know , I didn't know what was going to be different , like how I was going to be different than them . But I knew it was going to be different and I just never bought into it . Oh man , that's good stuff , dude .
ToddI mean because I knew you had those voices out there that were trying to pull you in and just go . Yeah , you know those rich people .
BrandonEvery day my uncle would say every day life sucks , I hate this life , life sucks . Every day he would say that shit . And you know I'm a kid , right , he doesn't want to hear what I have to say . But even then in my mind I was like , well , it doesn't have to . You know it sucks because that's the life you live , that's the life you lead , but it doesn't have to . And I felt that as a kid . But you couldn't tell him that . He just believed what he believed .
ToddI saw a lot of that growing up . You go through a trailer park and you just see people a lot of dads sitting there with no jobs and just drinking all day long and then they're abusive . They're angry and that's how they justify the abuse . Man , they're so angry and bitter and so they just take it out on the kids , the wife , yeah .
BrandonIn their defense . They don't know how to act any other way . And I'm not saying that's okay at all , because it's not . But part of using drugs and alcohol is you never learn how to cope and deal with things in life right . You've always relied on some substance to help you cope and deal right , and in some cases the substance just makes you a bigger monster . So you might be coping , but you're a monster to everyone else that's around you and it's just an ugly vicious cycle that happens to people and they just don't get out of it . They just don't know how to break out of it .
ToddRight , that's the generational stuff , man . Because they never were taught , they didn't have a parent that sat with them and taught them how to interact and be social and treat others well , and so they grow up not knowing how to do that . They're just kind of emotionally stunted and they don't know how to do it , and so then you get the bitterness and resentment , and it's just a cycle , man , that's the right phrase for it .
BrandonOr they don't even just don't know how to deal with problems and stressful situations , like my brother , you know , 10 years younger than me . He's a good person at heart . Right Inside he's a good person , but when something negative happens in life , he just loses his shit , like he just doesn't know how to handle it . Right now he's a smoker , he's , he's deals with alcoholism , he has this bouts of you know , he's an alcoholic , and then he gets clean for a little while and then something really bad happens and he falls back into it . Right , he's in and out of that cycle . And it's not because he's a bad dude and he's actually a really intelligent dude . He just doesn't know how to cope with crisis in difficult situations , right .
ToddYeah , that happens , man , it's yeah . But now would you say there were people along the way that kind of mentored you at all while you were coming up , or what people along the way that kind of mentored you at all while you were coming up or what .
BrandonNo man , that's why I'm such an anomaly to my own family . Right , they would even joke and say that I was adopted and stuff , because I was just so different than everyone else . I just always had this positive outlook on life that I just felt like life was going to be great for me and I'm not saying it always has been , because I've had struggles , right . And part of having that positive outlook is when life wasn't great and I was in the pits and I was like , oh shit , life isn't what I thought it was going to be , and that's what led at one point , to my suicide attempt .
ToddYeah , I read . There's a book Happiness Hypothesis . We've talked about it in previous episodes , james and I Basically scientific research . They came out and said 50% of your happiness is associated with genetics . So your temperament and your outlook on life and stuff like that 50% of that is your genes . What that means is some people are miserable , they're just like Eeyore , while others are just generally happy . So there's genetics . But then there's 40% of our happiness is actually our own choices , the activities that we choose to dedicate ourselves to . And then there's 10% circumstance . That was the stat that really blew my mind . 10% is circumstances . So you can live in poverty and squalor , and they did research studies , people that lived in squalor in India and stuff like that these people living in poverty but they're still happy . That's possible . So sounds like your genes were helping you out there a bit .
BrandonYeah , I mean I'm someone there's no scientific evidence behind it but I'm someone who definitely I'm sure you've seen the memes and stuff that life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond to it . I mean I really buy into that , I really believe that you know , something can happen to you in life Like what happened , you know the third time . I got divorced , right , I lost my wife , I lost my kids . I got laid off from my job . I lost my house . Right , I had to sell my house . I literally had you know nothing except clothes . I had my clothes , right . I had to give it all up in my divorce and lost everything Left .
BrandonA divorce with $25,000 worth of credit card debt that my ex-wife had accumulated . But because I was the breadwinner and she was a stay-at-home wife , the judge made it my debt . He didn't even split it . He made it my debt right . And then he made me still owe alimony and child support , even though we had 50-50 custody . And he did all of this knowing I was unemployed , I had no job , right .
BrandonSo just getting divorced and being in that situation where now I'm heartbroken , I'm emotionally unhappy and oh , by the way , I got about 50K worth of debt right here , that when I finally do get back on track in life now . I got to get rid of this . Really , how I responded in that moment was a big dictator in what happened to me in life , and I responded in a decision to give up . I decided to give up , and that's where my suicide attempt came in . Now I could have responded very differently , right , and things would have gone differently , but that was what I chose to do . So it's just the decisions you make in those difficult moments are really the determining factors of what is going to happen .
ToddYeah , yeah , I mean , dude , that was a deep pit man that you were in , so just understandable man .
BrandonAnd I got out of it . Right , I crawled out of it . I mean , not only for some years now have I not been in debt . I am living the best life I've ever lived . You really just have to just put your mind in the right place .
ToddYeah , so let's move on to what were you into as a teen ? Any sports , or what'd you do ? Oh yeah .
BrandonYeah , no , I was a pretty solid amateur athlete . So I played basketball , I played football , I was a pitcher in baseball and then , when I joined the Air Force , I got into volleyball and sports absolutely consumed me . And then in my mid-20s I also got into weightlifting because I was tired of being tall and skinny . Right , I was noticing girls like men with muscles , so I was like , wow , I'm going to get me some of those muscles then . So yeah , sports and fitness and health have always been a big part of my life .
ToddYeah , I was working out at a gym as a teen and there was this guy that was always in the locker room looking at himself and this guy was ripped and he was . He was always like , yeah , if it ain't tight , it ain't right . Yeah , oh , that's so funny .
Joining the Air Force
ToddSo why'd you choose to join the air force ? How did that come about ?
Brandonso yeah . So I had , uh , three uncles who were all in the military one was in the air force , two were in the army and all three of them told me to join the air force . So I thought , well , if that's not a ringing endorsement , I don't know what is . So yeah , I joined the air force because they basically said it's the best one , go there .
ToddSo that's what I did yep , I was in the marines and man the air force . I just saw they lived a different life . It was in the Marines and manned the Air Force .
BrandonI just saw they lived a different life . It was yeah , the quality of life is pretty damn good in the Air Force .
ToddYes , it was more family oriented , and my father-in-law did 35 years in the Air Force . He retired as a colonel and he deployed to Vietnam for a year , but I think he was in Thailand or something , and so that was a one year away unaccompanied , but for the rest of the time he was with his family , so that was .
BrandonYeah , I mean , I was a missile cop and I used to go out in the field for three days at a time every week . But I loved it because you know , the four days I had off every week were mine . So that's nice .
ToddYeah , it was a hell of a schedule . I loved it . Yeah , that's what I tell kids . Kids , if they're talking about the military , I'm like you might want to check out the Air .
BrandonForce yeah for sure , yeah .
Toddso how'd you end up leaving the Air Force ?
BrandonYeah , so you know , I was young , I was 20-ish , and I had no male mentors in my life and I got screwed over by a master sergeant that I had never met before . He came out to the missile facility that I was working at and he was supposed to QC me , do a quality control check on me , and it didn't happen because of work factors that were reasonable and understandable that it didn't happen at the time , and so he left and it was like an hour and a half drive , one way to get out there , and he goes back into the site and he just writes up this false QC report that he QC'd me and I failed .
ToddWhat does QC ?
Brandonstand for it's quality control .
BrandonIt's basically like being yeah , it's basically like just being tested on the job your job knowledge and your job skill right While you're actually on the job , and if you don't pass , you get decertified from the job that you do . And so I was in this position called flight security controller , which was normally met for an E6 or higher , and I was doing it as an E3 . So I was one of the first E3s to ever hold this position . As a matter of fact , I think I was the second in Air Force history . One guy had just beat me to it and you know I was high speed , I was working hard , I thought the Air Force was going to be my life , so I was trying really hard to do well and get promoted and be airman of the quarter and all these things , and it's just one asshole master sergeant derailed my entire career , and when he did that to me , to me that was traumatic .
BrandonIt was career ending for me , because now my whole career had been derailed . In my eyes Hindsight being 2020 , now that I'm older and I can see things in a different light it wasn't as awful as I thought it was at the time , but I didn't have anyone to tell me that I didn't . I didn't know any better . So for me , in my eyes at that time , it meant the Air Force wasn't for me anymore .
ToddRight , yeah , I mean the military . It's like you got good leaders , you got bad leaders . Sounds like that dude just had a beef . I mean , he just sounds like a bad leader man .
BrandonNever met him before , didn't know him from Adam and I'll never forget him . Master Sergeant Danford was his name . I mean , I don't even know if he's still alive anymore , but you know , he just , for whatever reason , decided to take some shit out on me , and I don't know why .
ToddYeah , my last unit . We had good leadership when we deployed , so that was cool . My battalion commander was a guy named Mastin Robeson . He ended up retiring as a three-star general . We loved that dude but he was a hard man but he took care of us so we called him Uncle Mastin . So he left . So we got back from from deployment and I had a few months left . We get a new batch of officers in man and it was bad leadership . Man , it was a battalion commander , that was . He was a beltway bandit so he came down . He wanted to get promoted to full bird colonel but he had to have a command billet and so he came down . He kept his house up in the DC area , came down for his command and it just yeah , he ended up getting a lot of people hurt , so that was just bad leadership man .
BrandonYeah , brother , bad leadership has been the story of my life , whether I was in the military or whether it was my corporate civilian career . I've had a couple good ones along the way , but those are the few . The many are the bad .
ToddYeah , I mean , dude , I'm thankful because I had some really good leaders in the military that looked past my faults and took me aside and coached me and were like , hey , dude , you know what , give me some tips on how to treat people and stuff . So it was cool , so I'm thankful for that . I knew what good looked like when I left the military , so that was cool . So I knew what good leadership was , and I'm thankful for that .
BrandonYeah , I would say one of the people that I'm thankful for and I don't remember his name , but he was like my supervisor for I would say , less than a year . We're talking months right . While he was my supervisor , I was explaining to him like , look , I really want to do well in the Air Force , I want to fast track rank . I told him all this stuff . He was like , yeah , he gave me some things to do . Two of the things that he gave me to do that impacted me the rest of my life . One was volunteering . I volunteered at a nursing home . Oh , wow , dude , no way .
BrandonYeah , when I was going to these nursing homes , I was trying to communicate with these older people that are basically on their deathbed and trying to create relationships with them . I was trying to make the best of just being there . So I had come up with these questions like a way to talk to them , but also , selfishly , I was trying to benefit myself in that these people had lived life , they were at the end of life , so I wanted to tap into their knowledge . I wanted to learn whatever they had to give you know , because a lot of people blow people off like that , like oh , they're old , they don't know anything , bull crap . They're a freaking fountain of information , right , yeah , so I tapped into that information and one of the questions that I asked them , that really stuck Right . And they all kept telling me that , dude , and it was not . It's not like they were in a group and we were talking in a group setting . I was talking to them one-on-one individually and they all kept giving me this answer , and so that just freaking stuck with me my whole life . And so then the other thing is with me my whole life .
BrandonAnd so then the other thing is is you know , I joined high school , you know , like school was never a thing I cared about or even tried to care about or was important in my family . You know , education didn't mean shit to anyone in my family . So I got out of high school with like a , you know D average . Right , I didn't do well at school at all . So to me the idea of college was just this foreign concept . That was a thing that would never happen in my life . Same .
BrandonAnd I was sharing that with that supervisor at the time and he was like , well , what was your best subject in high school ? And I said , well , I did do pretty well in math . Math came pretty easily to me . He said all right , I want you to take a college entry-level math class , right . And so I did . And I didn't , you know I didn't . I wasn't a full-time college student or anything , so I didn't take it too seriously . But I still got like a B plus in the course , right . And I thought , yeah . And I thought , well , son of a bitch , you know I can get a B plus in a college math class without even really giving it . You know my best effort . And so those things stuck with me . And so when that incident happened to me in the Air Force , him doing that to me gave me the confidence to believe I had what it takes to go to college right . And if he hadn't done that , who knows what I would have did .
ToddSame thing . Same thing happened to me . I was in high school and the headmaster of the little school I went to he just starts talking to me . I was a jerk kid , honestly , and I complained about my parents and all this stuff and I was always , like you know , bad mouth on my parents and complaining . He looked past that and mentored me and he started talking to me like , hey , so when you go to college and I'm like me , go to college , that made an impact , dude . And so I joined the military with the intent of , okay , I'm going to use GI Bill to go to college . And then when I seen some of the officers , I was like , eh , these dudes can go through college , I can't do it .
BrandonYeah , yeah , I mean , that does help , right , you meet some people who are quote-unquote educated and you think you're educated . Okay , Sure .
ToddThat was one of the greatest things about the military is you get thrown into this . It's like a big melting pot of all these different people from all walks of life and you kind of start seeing where you stack up and you're like I'm not the best , not the worst and I think I can kind of be okay-ish yeah .
BrandonAnd for me it was like I thought I was average or below average , right , but I would do things in boot camp , right , and I would be at the head of the pack , for example . And then we had like this , where I was stationed at , in shitty ass Minot , north Dakota , they had like this all-star championship thing where you would do three holes of golf and you would shoot you know baskets and you would shot put right . It was all these sports events put together like this decathlon , but it will , you know , they didn't call it that and I won that thing , I won the whole thing right . And so it was like you know , maybe I am a little more than average , you know , maybe you know . And so , yeah , all that stuff gave me confidence that I could do and be more out of life that I didn't know that I could do yeah , dude , you said three holes of golf .
ToddThat's the most air force thing that's awesome .
BrandonYeah , and it was just all part of this competition . It was a small part too . I don't remember it was like 15 events . One was just like throwing a football . How far inaccurate could you throw a football ? You had to throw it down like the first baseline of a baseball field . They measured distance and accuracy how close it was to the line I threw that sucker 70 yards Boy field and it was . They measured distance and accuracy how close it was to the line I threw that through that sucker 70 yards . But , um , yeah , but I , you know , I was a baseball pitcher in my in my early life so I had a hell of an arm , um , but yeah , it was just . It's just things like that that they throw you into and they make you do . I didn't have have to do this competition , but stuff leading up to this competition that just gives you that confidence and understanding that you can do some things .
ToddYeah , that's cool man . And you had that one master sergeant dude . He never took time to get to know you . He just sounds like that dude . He was out to get somebody and so he just comes in and pencil whipped you and yeah , that's just , that's bad dude . So that's how you end up leaving the Air Force . So your contract ended and you just departed and so you joined the military a second time . So how did that transition ? So you were a civilian for a time and then you joined the military again . Can you talk about that ?
BrandonI joined the army the second time . So , yeah , I was gonna . I finished my bachelor's degree in college and it was a combination of I got a Bachelor of Arts in communications and journalism because I wanted to be a sportscaster , but that wasn't working out where I was living in Dayton Ohio . And so between that and a combination of being in a toxic relationship where we couldn't get along but we also couldn't stay away from each other , I knew I needed to change , I needed to do something different in my life . So I tried to go back into the Air Force as an officer .
BrandonTo make a long story short , a recruiter screwed me over , so I walked into the hall of the army and I said what do you guys got ? And then they told me you know what , what would happen if I joined the army . And so I decided kind of in that moment I'm going to join the army and I'm going to advance my , I'm going to get a master's degree while I'm in the army . And so , yeah , I just made that decision to join the army and I'm going to advance my , I'm going to get a master's degree while I'm in the army . And so , yeah , I just made that decision to join the army and get a master's degree .
ToddNice . What'd you do in the army ?
BrandonIt's funny . I took the ASVAB and I got I guess someone told me this at the wellness center , I don't know if it's true or not , but she told me I got a perfect score on the ASVAB . I don't know what a perfect score is , but she told me that I did . So . I had this huge list of things I could pick to do when I joined the army , and I don't know why , but I thought recon sounded really cool and I was like , oh , I want to do that , I want to do recon . I was all gung ho in my mind , right , and then the recruiter . This is where a recruiter actually didn't screw me over for once in my life . And he goes don't you want to go to college and get a master's degree ? And I said , yeah , I do . He said if you're recon , you'll always be deployed , you'll always be gone . You won't get that master's degree .
BrandonAnd I said , all right , right . Well then , what do you ? You know , looking at this list on a computer screen , I'm like well , what do you recommend I do ? And he points and he goes pick that one . And I go food inspector , you want me to be a food inspector ? He's like man , trust me , that's an easy job . You'll work monday through friday . Yeah , he said you'll be off at 4 30 every day . You'll have evenings and weekends to yourself . You want that if you're going to school . And I said all right . So , yeah , I picked food inspection for that reason , that's great yeah .
BrandonSo you got the master's degree while you're in the army , then yeah , I did get an MBA and that's why I got out of the army , because I went through the same thing . Frankly , I hated the Army . I had bad leadership , really bad leadership in the Army . It's not even comparable to the Air Force . The Air Force was a thousand times better than the Army . I just had one bad incident in the Air Force where I had just a terrible four years in the Army , frankly .
BrandonBut I still thought about one of my good friends in the army . He was a staff sergeant . He got direct commission to second lieutenant for environmental health because he had a degree in environmental health and he kept trying to tell me here I was an E-5 sergeant and he was a captain , right , and we were hanging out and my leadership's all pissed off because I'm hanging out with an officer , right , but he used to be a staff sergeant and he got commissioned . So we were friends before he became an officer . But he's constantly trying to convince me just become an officer , you'll love it , it's a much better life . So I had him in my ear telling me that . But then I had another guy who was a chief warrant officer . He was a CW3 . And he was like no man , you get that MBA and you get the hell out . You go make some real money . You're not going to make real money as an officer in the army . Go make real money with that MBA .
BrandonAnd so between the two of them and I just didn't want to go . I didn't want to go through OCS because you , you had to run like five miles in 45 minutes and I freaking hate running . Um , yeah , yeah . So I was going to be timed on a five mile and I was like , uh , I don't know if I want to do that . His name was Matt . I said Matt , I don't know if I want to do that . His name was Matt . I said Matt , I don't know if I want to do that . I don't know if it's worth it to me . You got direct commissioned . If I got direct commissioned , it might be worth it . So then I just decided to get out and go . Let my MBA take me where it takes me .
ToddYeah , dude , I mean the military . It's the careerists that are jacking the place up , man . Yeah , it's like you know , I had some good leaders , but then the careerists were the ones that they were just bad leaders . They were out for themselves and they just jacked people over . So I'm glad I did the military , but I'm glad I got out . I've had a good career and I've enjoyed myself .
BrandonWell , even the negative things that happen , you learn from right . So and I've enjoyed myself Well , even the negative things that happen , you learn from right . So you get a lot of learning experience in the military , whether it's from positive or negative , but you still get a lot of learning experience .
ToddYeah , it's good man . I mean it helps me when , like , if I'm interviewing for a job , I'm talking to the hiring manager , I can ask some just nondescript questions and their answers to that reveal a lot . So it's like , oh , okay , cool .
BrandonYeah , the choice of picking what you want to do for a living , a choice of leaving right If you're at a job that you hate , is miserable . Whatever you start looking for another job on your own , free will , you find one and you just leave . You can't do that in the military . You just leave . You can't do that in the military .
ToddOh man , all right , so that was the military career . So
Impact of Childhood on Adult Relationships
Toddlet's circle back on relationships . So how did your childhood impact your relationships , like with family and coworkers ?
BrandonYeah , oh man , that's a good question . I've always been a pretty honest , good dude . Before I knew what the golden rule was , it was how I lived life . I always treated people the way I wanted to be treated . But I didn't have it in those words , it just was natural to me , to me . And so , you know , I would make friends pretty easily and I would get close to people .
BrandonAnd you know , I had a lot of heartache that way , a lot of pain , because I've had a lot of friends and family even a little bit screw me over because they were so selfish and self-serving , right , and I wasn't like that . I was the type of guy that you know you could leave me with . I could stay the night with your girlfriend . I would never try to hit on her . I had friends . Try to hook up with my girlfriends or wives or you know whatever , yeah , and you know just things that were devastating to me because I would never treat someone that way . And so , yeah , I had to learn a lot of hard lessons from getting close to the wrong people , because the bar was low for me , right ? I grew up around alcoholics and drug addicts , right ? So if you weren't an alcoholic and drug addict and you were trying to do something with your life . You must be a decent person , right , not necessarily .
ToddRight , yeah , yeah . So it sounds like the impact was not being able to read people , perhaps . Yeah .
BrandonYeah , and I overcompensated with that and I focused really , really hard on learning how to do that and now I feel like I'm very , very good at reading people , because I just didn't want to be caught like that anymore .
ToddI had dude . I had the same thing , man . It was like when I became an adult , it was like latching onto people , you know , and kind of attaching to them , and it was not a good thing , because not everybody's good .
BrandonSo , yeah , I had very similar things going on , man yeah , no , I was a guy that , you know , when I was in the air force , between 70 and 20 , I I would have thought I had like 30 to 50 friends , right like , and I would have called them quote unquote friends . Right now I'm a guy that I have four good friends in my life , four . Only one of them lives even in the same town . The other three are military dudes that were actually the good people that I connected with in my military life , but they live in other parts of the world .
ToddYeah , we think we have a lot of friends when we're young .
BrandonYeah , we do , and you find out . Yeah , no , sure , don't .
Getting Professional Help
ToddHow did you get to the point where you said hey , I need to seek professional help . Can you talk about that ?
BrandonWell , the first time it happened , it was thrown on me . So what happened was when I first got in the Air Force , I was dating this really beautiful blonde girl , the most beautiful girl I had ever been with Right . And then I was out in the missile field and it was let me stop you there , cause that's the , the pretty girls are in the air force , so well , she wasn't .
BrandonHer dad was . She was a daughter of an air force , she was a military brat , um , and I was only 17 , and she was actually only 17 . She was a senior in high school , and some people had problems with that because I was in the air force and she was in high school , but we were the same age , we were both 17 . So , you know , we're both young , stupid , we don't . Who knows what a relationship is at 17 years old , right ? But I was hooked on her man , I mean , I , I thought I was in love with this girl . She's the one , yeah , yeah , right , I mean , for me at that point in life , she was by far the best thing that had happened to me as far as girls go .
BrandonAnd I was out in the missile field first day and she calls me and she's just talking to me and I'm like what'd you do today ? And you know , she innocently says like , oh , you know , yeah , I met this guy and he took me for a ride on his motorcycle and I was like what you know ? And she proceeds to tell me this story as if it's this innocent thing , right , and of course I got pissed off and I didn't see it as innocent , right . And I got upset and you know , she just went into defensive mode and was like I didn't do anything wrong . You know , blah , blah , blah , whatever . We ended up breaking up , right . And it's my first day out in the missile field and I'm like I don't want to be out here , right . So in my head I'm upset , I'm hurt , I'm kind of scheming , like how can I get the hell back to base because I don't want to be out here . And so I told my flight sergeant that I was going to kill myself , right ?
BrandonI didn't I didn't actually mean it , right , but I was so young and stupid and naive that I thought they would just take me off duty because I carried , you know , an m16 as a weapon . I was a . No , that's not what happened at all . So they were like they took me into base , they took me to the hospital . The hospital drugged me and the next time I woke up I was in a stretcher on a flight to Lackland Air Force Base , to the mental health facility . Wow .
ToddOkay , yeah , wow , grippy socks , yeah . Wow , yeah , grippy socks , yeah , yeah , oh , my word .
BrandonWow .
ToddThat's pretty dramatic , dude .
BrandonIt was really dramatic , right , and I get there in , like these counselors and therapists are , you know , oh , you know , how can we help you ? Blah , blah , blah , and I'm like , look , I didn't want to kill myself , I was just in this situation . And so they didn't want to release me because they didn't believe me . They thought I was just saying bullshit , because I didn't want to open up or whatever . And then finally , after a couple of weeks , they were like all right , he must be telling the truth , because he stuck to this story for a couple of weeks and they finally let me go . And you know , but I did get , you know , I had to sit in group therapy sessions , I had to see a therapist and I actually did see some good stuff behind doing that , even though , you know , I wasn't really suicidal at that time . So I , yeah , it , it , it , I guess , tapped me into the possibility of getting help .
ToddYeah Well , that , oh wow , that's dramatic , but it's like then you start to go okay , cool , I've learned some things here .
BrandonYeah , yeah , I mean , that's what we need to do in every bad situation . Right Is , learn something from it .
ToddWow , dude's , that's pretty cool , it's uh , I just wanted to get off duty yeah , yeah , I really did .
BrandonI mean , we made fun of it , right , I played flag football . When I got back , I put psycho on the back of my jersey , right , like we had a good time with it , because you know me and my friends laughed about it , but uh , it was a stupid thing to do for sure .
ToddAnother thing I love about the military is how we just make fun of each other . Yeah , you know you got to laugh , man it's . But so , over time , though , how has therapy and education helped you overcome the past ?
BrandonWell , so education has just opened doors for me . I mean , obviously it's probably made me more intelligent in some ways that you can't really , I guess , put a finger on right , because you don't really learn . You don't really remember what you learned in school , right ? I don't remember what I learned getting my bachelor's degree or my MBA , I don't really , if they don't get an education right , I don't know that for sure . I'm just talking about my experience . But just having the education opened doors for me that I would not have had opened if I didn't get the education , so that was really beneficial . And I actually forgot the other part of your question .
ToddHow did therapy and education help you overcome ?
Brandonthe past . Oh yeah . So therapy I told you this . We had a conversation before we did this podcast I've seen like a dozen therapists in my life and I only met one or saw one that was actually good and actually worked . And the reason I think that that's pertinent and important is because I've heard other people say , oh , I've gone to therapy , it doesn't work right . So all that means is you just didn't meet the right therapist . You didn't find the right one , because when I found the right one , she was life-altering for me . She was life-saving for me . She really helped me a lot in life . She helped me see myself in a different light when the rest of the world is making you question yourself and who you are and what you're doing . She really brought me back to my center of who I am and what I'm doing in life , and so she was hugely beneficial in my life . So if you think therapy doesn't work , you just haven't found the right one .
ToddRight , like you said , most are not a good fit . I'll say that just to be . You got to find one that's a good fit for you , but there are a lot out there that it's like it's formulaic for them and they'll email you a document to read that's and it's like can you put in less effort ?
BrandonSo , if that I mean , I used to go see a marriage therapist with my wife , you know , and she would be like , oh , I'm gonna send you something to do this , or I'm going to send you something to do that , or we'll talk about this in next session , and those things just didn't happen , like it was just talk , no follow through .
ToddYeah , but when you find a good someone that's been trained , yeah , really knows what the heck they're doing and cares , yeah , they can dig in with you and just go , you know they're not telling .
ToddIt's not like TV . They're not sitting there telling you what to do and they're just working with you . Yeah , they don't know A good counselor . They know they don't know and they're just exploring things with you , but they've had training to be able to guide you . When you reveal something to a good , trained therapist , they have the knowledge to be able to say ah , okay , and then just gently guide you down the path to finding healing , to growth .
BrandonYeah , and the key to her versus other therapists was you know , with other therapists is like , oh , have you tried this ? Have you tried that you could do differently , this differently ? You could do that , that you could do differently , this differently , you could do that Whereas she was like , oh , this is what would work best for you , or oh , you're doing the right thing . She showed me to believe in myself and what I'm already doing , whereas other therapists were trying to make me change and do things differently , which was what was causing all the confusion and the problem in the first place , because I was trying to be somebody that I thought I should be , not who I actually was or wanted to be , and she really honed that in and worked that out .
ToddThat's awesome , man . Yeah , so you spent a lot of time doing the inner work , yeah , yeah , yeah , just putting in that time , dude , we all have to do that , and so it sounds then like you've had multiple relationships and whatnot . How have your relationships changed with family and coworkers and whatnot as a result of that inner work ?
BrandonMultiple ways right With family , like wives . For example , I'm on my fourth wife . It really took me three failures to find out what I needed for the right person , and things that I thought I needed turns out I didn't need right , I needed other things that I didn't realize before , and so that helped me find the right person for who I am married to now , and I have by far you know people . Oh , you know this is just your fourth marriage . This marriage could fail too . Yeah , you're right , it could , but it's by far the best relationship I've ever had in my entire life , and so that is positive enough right there and also makes me feel like this relationship isn't going to fail because things don't happen where you feel like it could lead to failure , whereas my other relationships have bounced up and down and all over the place , and sometimes you're trying to survive and make it work when you know really you're just trying to , you know , make something good out of something that's not good , and so that's how it's helped me in my personal married life and with family and stuff .
BrandonI learned that , you know , because I grew up under the mantra you can't pick your family , your family is family , right . So that made me feel like you have to put up with all the bullshit your family brings right , all the negativity , all the backstabbing , whatever it is they bring that you have to put up with it . And then I learned like you don't have to do that , right , yeah , so you can choose the positive forces in your life , the positive people , and you can let them be a part of your life . And then the negative forces and the negative people , you push them out , you get them out of your life . It doesn't matter if it's a family member or a friend or whatever . If they're not making your life better in some way , they don't need to be a part of it . So that was something I had to learn along the way as well .
ToddThis episode is brought to you by the therapeutic word boundaries . True , true , uh , I've heard . I heard the word in the past and it was like okay , cool , whatever , boundaries , that's legit , dude , that's the thing they have around states right boundaries boundaries . So yeah , you gotta , and you have to stand up for those boundaries , because otherwise people just run over you .
BrandonMan , it's uh anyway , yeah no , I I was too nice when I was young and people did take advantage of my kindness and you know wives have taken advantage of my kindness . But now I'm much more of the age and credence of don't mistake my kindness for weakness . I fight back now and I will stand up for myself
Grief of Losing His Daughter
Brandon.
ToddYeah , I mean , on top of everything you went through in childhood , you also lost a daughter . You feel like talking about that ?
BrandonYeah , it's an ugly story . It's not beautiful for anyone , but I was 22 years old . My wife at the time , my first wife . She had gotten pregnant , which wasn't supposed to happen . She was supposed to be on birth control , so this wasn't supposed to be a thing that was supposed to be a part of our life . So it was an accident , if you will . And so she's pregnant , she's coming along and you're starting to get the idea of all right , well , I'm going to be a parent . Right , I'm going to be a dad . So you start getting on board with that idea and then early in the pregnancy I think around the five-month mark she starts coming out .
BrandonMy wife at the time had a weak cervix and nobody knew that . That's something you can't know until you're pregnant and you find out you have a weak cervix , right . So they did all this stuff . They tried flipping my wife at the time upside down because the baby was starting to come out , and have it go back inside of her . And she was upside down , dude , for almost four days . I want to say it's like three to four days and the doctor comes in and he's like , look she's , she's not going back up in there , and if we don't flip you upside down , you're gonna die , right . And my wife at the time she's so stubborn , she's like I don't care , let me die , you know , save her . And it's like duh , you can't , you can't save her . If you die , you're , you know , you're the , you're the survival .
BrandonSo so , yeah , so , you know he's like he flips her back over and he's like look , she's gonna come out . You know you're gonna give birth to her . She's gonna cry , she's gonna scream , it's , she's gonna sound normal , but her lungs are underdeveloped and there's nothing . You know you're going to give birth to her . She's going to cry , she's going to scream , she's going to sound normal , but her lungs are underdeveloped and there's nothing we can do for you and she's going to die , she's going to pass . And so , yeah , we went through that . We went through you know her sitting there giving birth . She comes out . You hold her . She's a screaming , crying little girl until she's just not anymore . And then she's gone . Yeah , and it was the worst thing I've ever gone through , and I've gone through a lot of bad things in life . That was the worst thing I've ever gone through .
ToddDude , that's grievous man . I'm sorry , dude oh yeah , it's brutal .
BrandonYeah , wouldn't wish that on anyone Losing a child .
ToddSorry , man , yeah . So let's step it up a little bit , yeah so yeah , fun topic for sure . That's rough , brother , I'm sorry man , but that's all right .
BrandonI mean , it is what it is . It happened , I can't do anything about it .
ToddYeah . So I mean ,
Post Military Life and Suicide Attempt
Toddwhat was your career trajectory after you left the military ? How's life worked out since then ? It's crazy .
BrandonLife is crazy . It's been up and down , for sure , and it's been more up in recent years , but it took multiple years of adulthood for me to make it steady like that . It's been a roller coaster ride , for sure . I've had to start over four times in life with nothing . I've had to start from nothing four times in life and it's exhausting . It's exhausting as a matter of fact , the fourth time when I did attempt suicide and I had decided to give up , I had gotten a divorce I didn't want to get , which means I lost my wife . I lost my kids .
BrandonI got laid off at the exact same time while I was going through the divorce , had to sell my house house . When I went through the divorce , my wife had accumulated $25,000 worth of credit card debt . The judge made me keep because I was the breadwinner and she was the stay-at-home wife . So he made me take on the 25K debt , even though I was laid off . And then he also ordered me to pay her spousal maintenance and child support , even though we had 50-50 custody of the kids . I was like 50K in debt , unemployed , nowhere to live , no job . I was done . I was ready to give up in life , so that was the lowest point as far as what I was going through personally in life . Still , the worst thing that ever happened to me was losing a daughter . But that was the lowest point in life where I just thought well , there's just no reason for me to be here anymore . I can't overcome the obstacles that life has thrown at me . And that's how I looked at it . I looked at it like I was a victim of life , and so that beat me , it won and I gave up . But I did . Obviously , I didn't die . I lived . I took a full bottle of Ambien and someone called the ambulance and they saved my life .
BrandonWhen I woke up , I was mad , I was angry that I was still alive , I wanted to be dead . But then I , like a flip switched inside of me . I was angry that I was still alive , I wanted to be dead , but then I , like a flip switched inside of me or I say that wrong a switch flipped inside of me that it was like well , if I'm going to live , I can't keep living like this . I have to change my life and I have to change what it is and my outlook and what it's become . So then I just did , I just made a decision right then and there that , whatever it took , I was going to get back on my feet .
BrandonI was going to get rid of all that debt that credit card debt , that spousal maintenance , child support and I was going to make myself a great life . And through hard work and determination I did , and so I had the best career I've ever had . I have the best marriage and relationship I've ever had . I mean my outlook on life just in general period . When bumps come in , they don't have this big , huge shockwave effect on me like they used to have , like , oh , why does this stuff happen to me ? Right , you just kind of handle it in stride and realize it will pass and there's still plenty of other great things to be thankful for and happy about , and you focus on those and , yeah , my life is the best it's ever been and has been for a few
Starting the Life is Crazy Podcast
Brandonyears now .
ToddThat's inspiring dude . I'm happy for you , man .
BrandonThank you , man , and I want that for other people . That's the thing about it . This podcast came about in I'm life coaching because I don't want people to have to go through what I've gone through to get here Right and you don't have to . You don't have to . I didn't have mentors , I didn't have someone to guide me . I had to go through this shit to get here . But I want to help other people so they don't have to .
ToddAnd that is I mean you extend that to military veterans as well . You want to talk about that ?
BrandonYeah , I mean , of course , military veterans , the most suicidal males on this earth . Right , they just are . Eight out of every 10 suicides is men . Men are just suicidal period in general , but when you look at percentages , military veterans are the highest by far . And so I wanted to reach out to them and get to them and see whatever I can do , whatever community I can create , whatever kind of people I can surround them with , to let them know that they can get through whatever they're going through , and suicide is not the answer . That's my mission , that's what I'm trying to do . So there's a long way to go on that , but that's what I'm trying to do .
ToddYeah , with military it's like you've got that community and you've got that camaraderie , you've got those connections with other people in your squadron , platoon , whatever , yeah , and then you leave and you go to civilian life and that's gone . And that is a huge mental block for people to overcome . Yeah , when I get older and you look back and you miss that , and so I can see , man , why people want to check out .
BrandonWell , what I love about military veterans is , you know , when we're in the military , when we're actually active duty , right , we all talk shit . It's like it's almost like a fraternity of a college , right . Like , oh , I'm in the air force , I'm Ohio state , oh , you're in the Marines , you're Michigan , right , like we , we shit on each other and make fun of each other , but once we're out , we're just all veterans , right . It doesn't matter what branch of service you are in . You know , that connection is just there because , oh , you went through some shit . No , okay , yeah , you're military too , right . So it's a bond that I try to tell people , like , as someone who's been an athlete in the corporate world . You can't find that bond anywhere else . No , nowhere .
ToddIt's awesome , dude . There is struggle , there is , there's just hardship , and that shared hardship and living with people 24-7 is , yeah . You can't make those connections in civilian life . So , no , no , so that's how you ended up starting your podcast life . It's crazy . Anything else you want to share about the podcast ?
BrandonIf you know anyone who's struggling or going through a difficult time and they're having a hard time seeing a way through or finding a way out , listen to the podcast .
BrandonI do bring on a lot of people who are there to support and help others that have gone through that situation , and they vary , they're different types of people . For that exact reason , right , I can't personally connect with everyone , and I don't just mean because it's physically impossible , I mean because maybe everyone's experience isn't the same as mine and they don't connect with me on a mental and emotional level , right . So I try to bring on guests who also have been through some trauma or have been suicidal or the very least had suicidal ideations if they never attempted , and maybe they connect with them better , maybe they identify with what they're going through better , and then that's someone they can connect with and get help from . And so that's really what I'm trying to do , by bringing just a vast array of types of people from every it doesn't matter man , doctors , lawyers , whatever career you can think of . I've come across people who have either been suicidal ideations or they've actually attempted it . There's always someone on there for people to connect with .
ToddThat's great . I mean , we need that connection , man . That's what we're missing , and especially in affluent America . We're just disconnected . You just see , social media man , we're not connected to people . When you're just seeing someone's best day of their life on social media , man , that can make you depressed . So yeah , yeah . So thanks for starting your podcast , man . We need that dude , we need community , we need people to be connected . So that's good stuff .
BrandonThank you , man . Thanks for having me on too
Takeaways
Brandon.
ToddYeah . So I mean , what takeaway do you want to leave with our listeners ?
BrandonYeah , the biggest takeaway I like to tell people is no matter what it is you're going through or have gone through and you might be in a bad place right now in life just remember this too shall pass right . Don't live in the moment , live for the big picture , right ? No matter how hard the moment is right now , work towards the big picture . Just take the right steps , do the right things and things will fall into place for you . And just remember it will pass . Whatever you're going through , it will pass .
ToddThat's true . Now , here's what resonated with me just listening to you A lot of people , man , they're dealing with terrible situations . Everybody's got trials and struggles in life and we have to choose a response . Yeah , and the best thing we can do is talk about it to other people . Yeah , and I've said this many times here on the podcast , but the best thing I took away from the military is that connection and knowing how to talk to other people . So when we were forward deployed , it was like we spent hours talking to one another . When you're just downtime at night and you got nothing to do and you're just sitting there telling stories and , dude , that connection we all need that .
ToddAnother thing that occurs to me here is that I mean , we can be in the depths of failure and despair , but there's always hope . Yeah , and man , just listening to your story , dude , that really brought that to mind . Also , the bad things that happen to us they don't define who we are , they don't have to Right , and for me , that's another reason to get help in dealing with that because , okay , bad things happen to us and oftentimes we feel shame as a result of that . Getting professional help to deal with that , to process those things , dude . That's invaluable . I'm thankful for it . I mean , reach out and get that help that you need right .
BrandonYeah , I mean , I think one of the best things is you can understand is you don't have all the answers . Right , nobody has all the answers . So , just like you would want to learn , maybe , how to fix a car , for example , if that was something you're into , you got to learn how to fix your brain or go through situations that you weren't prepared for . Right , you don't have the answers , so go to someone that does .
ToddYeah , I mean , we go to orthos for our physical conditions , exactly . They're people that help work on your brain too , so they're trained . We can wrap it up at this point
Closing Thoughts
Todd, but look for the Life is Crazy podcast on your podcast platforms , and I'm going to include a link in the description that'll take you to all of Brandon's platforms . Just click the link , listen to his podcast or reach out to him for life coaching if you need that , but I'll put a link in the description . Brandon , we appreciate your time , brother . Thanks so much , man . Yeah , thank you for having me . I appreciate it . All right , we'll be talking again , man . Now I invite you to check out the links in the description If you want to pick up the books we cover on the podcast . They'll be there . We're an Amazon partner , so we do earn from these purchases to you , so thanks so much for joining and James , enjoy the chat .
ToddYeah , very , very insightful , appreciate it . Thanks for our listeners . We look forward to seeing y'all next time . Have a great day .
