Welcome

Todd 0:00

This is the cluttered path, a compass for midlife.

unknown 0:03

The path is gone.

Introduction

Todd 0:14

Most families spend their lives trying to build stability. Steady job, stable routines, its programs, the typical American lifestyle. Susie Mae did all of that and then walked away from it. She made a radical change and started slow traveling the world. Not just for vacation. It's not just about their life now. If you're like me, it sounds amazing, but also quite scary. Now here's the part nobody talks about. What if the stable life we're chasing is actually the risky version? Today, Susie is here to talk about a concept called slow travel and how it actually works for a family. Money, homeschooling, logistics, and the parts that don't show up on social media. This isn't just a travel story. It's a question of whether we're living a life that we choose. And by the end, you can decide whether a nomadic life is true freedom or just a romantic notion with different trade-offs. Susie, welcome to the show.

Suzy May 1:14

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Early Years Spent Traveling

Todd 1:16

Yeah, you're welcome. It's good to meet you. Can you spend a minute or two telling us about your background?

Suzy May 1:23

Yeah, absolutely. I was born in Colorado. So I grew up in uh the Great City of Colorado. I love the mountains. I like being outdoors and skiing and all those fun things. I lived in California and then Germany when I was a nurse in the Air Force. So I had that overseas um exposure in my early 20s where we did a ton of traveling. And I was, I was bit by the travel bug. So after I left active duty, I took a year of travel. I volunteered, slow traveled around Southeast Asia, visited with friends. It was a transformative year. And that led into grad school. And then I knew I wanted to keep traveling. And so with my now husband, before we got married, we did a couple months in South America. And I just really enjoyed those opportunities to not just get it all done in a two-week vacation, but to really take intentional time off between work opportunities, between school opportunities to travel, immerse myself in different places, see different things. And some of those memories are just, you know, they're burned in my brain. They're just core memories that I'll have forever. Those memory dividends are continuing and continuing. So that left a strong impression on me early on that travel is very meaningful. And then, of course, as you get back into a job and start a family, oh, and there's a pandemic, we took quite a bit of time off from travel. I will also say, right, before the pandemic, we went on. My husband grew up in Germany. So we visited family with a 14-month-old, trying to fit as much in as in two weeks as we could. And it was exhausting. And that's when we said, we cannot travel the same way. And we were slow traveling before, but not the same way. And so with kids, we said, this has got to shift a little bit because kids don't really care where they are. They're really affected by jet lag. They can't just shake it off as easily. And so it re-enforced the need to look at travel from a different perspective as a family. And what is important to me shifted. I decided that it's not just about seeing things and experiencing things, but slowing down, being more like a local in an area than a tourist. And so that has been a shift for me as well. And also seeking flexible work opportunities. It was my big, I guess, midlife shift in some ways and working more as a financial educator now. I've I've put my nurse hat on hold for a bit. I'm helping families financially and logistically plan for more travel. So all that means that we've taken the opportunity to live half a year in Spain and half the year in Colorado, or actually this fall will be in Japan. And we've been doing this for almost three years now, spending time in Spain, Colorado, Germany, different places, slowing down. And I've learned so much about languages and cultures and being vulnerable in a new location and showing that to my kids that there is a way to learn and grow at all ages and stages, and that it's okay that they're learning and making mistakes. And I'm doing the same thing as well as I'm learning. Again, Spanish has been a steep learning curve for me. Coming here with nothing and uh the Andalus accent is very strong here in Andalusia. So that is, I guess, a quick or not so quick rundown of my background and our family and our desire uh to slow travel more. And it's been really fun to highlight those traveling family stories on the Wonder World School podcast. There's so many different ways to travel as a family, more intentional, slow down. And then I think it's important to highlight the financial, logistical, and the challenges. Like you said, it's not always sunshine and roses. There are challenging parts to it. But if we can understand what those might look like, we can come up with a plan, we can learn from them and adjust and adapt as we need.

Todd 5:17

Yeah, that's what's really interested me in what you're doing because the planning that goes behind it. So the financial planning, those things that you put into it to prepare before you hit the road. So I appreciate that. Some other areas of commonality here. So I was in the military. My wife's dad was in the Air Force as well. He was in combat communications. They lived in Germany for three years. And so after my wife and I married, we ended up taking one of those Mac flights from Dover Air Force Base over to Germany. We ended up getting a 10-day rail pass, and we just traveled Germany for 10 days. It was cool. So that was pre-kids. So we didn't have to do too much planning for that. So but uh yeah, thanks for your service to our nation.

Suzy May 6:00

Yeah, no, and and thank you too. I've I've learned a lot. I will also say, like you said, those early years working with people from all different backgrounds, all different parts of the US, and then being in deployed locations, but also living in Germany, where I had, of course, support of a sponsor and a supervisor and all the base support, but also I lived on the economy. I had a German landlord. And so it was this way to ease into living abroad that made me realize that this is possible. And when we moved to Spain without those same supports, it I was like, oh, that was kind of nice to have all those people, all those things helping you make it happen instead of you having to navigate all the bureaucracy on your own. But I guess my story is that you can start somewhere and just keep progressing on those skills. And it might not need mean that you quit everything tomorrow and move to some far-flung location, but you ease into that and you gain your travel footing. And then eventually things grow as you decide that, hey, this is working for us.

Todd 7:05

Nice. Yeah. So while we're here, can you what's the name of your podcast again?

Suzy May 7:10

Wander World School and helping us, helping families fund and plan slow and long-term travel. There are a lot of great podcasts around travel, but I really like to focus on maybe different ways to think about it from slowing down, long-term travel, full-time travel, gap years, even a full summer might be long for some people. How can I take time off from work or switch to remote work and take work with me? That's what my husband works remotely. And so it opened up these doors where we can be in a lot of different locations. And our life here is actually we're in Spain right now. Our life is actually pretty normal when we're here, but then we get a week off and we get to go to Portugal and hang out with other traveling families. I was just telling you before we started that that's what we did last week. And it is really cool to have these opportunities to be just integrated in a local community that is so different in some ways, but also just people living their life out at the plaza with their kids. So I learned so much from just being here and exploring what local daily life is like while also having some cool travel opportunities.

What is Slow Travel?

Todd 8:18

Yeah, just doing the touristy thing is you don't get to connect and just get to know people. So that's the slow travel concept. It really pretty fascinating. So I like that. But let's get into your story now. What is slow travel?

Suzy May 8:33

I will say a lot of this, there is no one right or wrong definition. So if this resonates with you, great. If you would define it differently, totally cool too. I just think it involves being more intentional about slowing down. For some people, that might mean, and I'll say this you know, my husband grew up in Germany, they have a lot more PTO built in. And so for my you know, sister-in-law that lives in Germany, she travels quite a bit, and it is already slow because they'll always take at least two weeks to go somewhere. Whereas we know from a US mindset, if all you have is two weeks a year, you might try to take one week at a time and fit as much in. So this comes, this varies based on where you're coming from. But if you're more intentional about slowing down, saying I have this amount of time, I could see five locations, but maybe I should just stay in one, do some day trips from there. What is something, the top five things to do in that location? But what is number six through 10, the stuff that people don't get to when they're there just for three or four days? And why is that not as popular? And and we just explore different things, you know, live outside of the city center or the tourist center. And so you can shop where the local shop, see what daily life is like, see what cultural festivities are coming up that you wouldn't have even noticed or known about if you had only been there for a short while. For example, Samana Santa is really big in Spain. That was last week. Sevilla is packed. There's a million people that show up in Sevilla for Samana Santa. But actually, some of these smaller communities do some really heartfelt um processions as well. And so you can actually be in a smaller community, seeing what people are like as they're supporting these local cultures and customs without it being as big and grandiose as the main thing. So I'd say slow travel is just slowing down, choosing to stay in locations longer, living more like a local than a tourist.

Todd 10:31

Nice. Yeah, you triggered something. It's funny, there's this joke about uh Europeans versus Americans when it comes to vacation and stuff. And people, the out-of-office message in Europe will be something like, um, I'll be back in August. And then in America, it's like, I'm having surgery at 8 a.m., but I'll be back online by 10. So yeah, there's a difference culturally, but yes, very true, very true.

Suzy May 10:56

And I've seen, you know, the families my kids go to some language schools here a little bit, and there are families that work very hard here too. And, you know, life is life wherever you are. Um, but I will say there is that difference to slow down. There's a dad's lunch that my husband's going to this Friday, Friday at two o'clock, because that's lunchtime in Spain, and it will go until 8 p.m. Wow. And so that is just a mindset that is so different from the US, where it's like, let's pencil in dinner in two months from 5 to 7 p.m. on a Saturday, because that's the only time we're free. But here it's like people have Friday afternoon off, they're gonna go get lunch, and it's going to take a long time because it is intentional to spend that extended amount of time together, more in-depth conversations. We're not hustling to the next thing. This is our plan for the day. So that's been really cool to experience.

Todd 11:49

Yes. I mean, here in America, it's like the kids are small, they're in sports, they're in all these different programs, and you're working so much, very little vacation. Even if you get unlimited PTO, like in the tech industry, that's in vogue right now. They say unlimited vacation, but it's not really. It's really a cost-saving measure for the company. But we're not taking much time off in America. And then when we are outside of work, you're just running from one thing to the next, it's pretty hectic. So yeah, slow travel. That sounds good.

Suzy May 12:18

I think when people start to slow travel, they might realize, hey, this is actually more relaxing to travel and slow down a little bit. I don't come home so exhausted. And then maybe we can incorporate some of those habits into our daily life where we're not filling the entire weekend up. We're saying this is our one thing for the weekend or for this, and then the other day is to relax. And I do find that families in Spain travel a lot within Spain, probably financially, but also there's a lot of cool things in Spain. But it's not as much about traveling to all these different things and places. You know, they're very intentional about where they go and how long they go. And again, all of August they take off for sure, especially in the south here. Um, and so it's a way to just slow down. And I think that's a lesson that we can learn in a lot of aspects of our life.

Todd 13:05

Yeah. Side note about Spain. So I was in the Marines. We we did a tour in the Mediterranean and we pulled into port a lot of places in Spain. Uh, what was it?

Suzy May 13:14

Barcelona, Malaga, I think Tremolino is that a place, but uh Rhoda is the naval base on the coast of the U.S.

Todd 13:22

pulled into port there, yeah. So um funny, they don't really like Americans too much there because of the the raucous marines that go into port there. Not cool. But it was funny. But the first time we go to Spain, I hung out with my friend from Puerto Rico, and I said, Hey, when we go to town, I'm going with you. And he he was from New York, Puerto Rican from New York, but he spoke Spanish. We get off the boat and we're walking around, and he's like, I don't know what anybody's saying, man. These guys totally different dialect. So we ended up getting stuck in the middle of uh some I think it was Barcelona, and uh just crazy. So we we get in a cab, we're trying to get back to the ship, and we're just having to play charades with this guy to say boat, you know, trying to get us back to the port, stuff like that. But totally different dialect over there in Spain. So yeah.

Suzy May 14:12

That that is true, and that's the fascinating part about Europe in general, it's just all the different languages at this family gathering last week. There were German families and from Malta. I was talking to the 11-year-old about Maltese, and he was explaining that it's a mix of Arabic, but with the Latin alphabet. I was shocked because I just didn't know that. And also, yes, the dialects within Spain and the different languages within Spain. I think uh it's very true that you might become very competent at Spain-Spanish, but struggle in certain countries like Argentina is very different in their dialect. But I think there's still a benefit to making progress in a language, and I'm hoping, especially for my kids, that if they have this strong foundation, they'll be able to adapt as they go to other countries and need to learn a different dialect. I have learned though, we read a lot of British books because they're just accessible here, and those are the English books that we read as a family. And I'm learning all sorts of words in British English that I knew there was flat and these other words, but I'm like, oh, there's actually ones I didn't even know. I had to like search. So it is fun to experiment even with our own English language, just how much variety there is around the world.

Making the Nomadic Dream a Reality

Todd 15:23

Yeah. So you've given us the background now on how you decided to change your lifestyle. Now, deciding to do the nomadic lifestyle was one thing, but pulling it off was another. So let's talk about how you took your dream and made it a reality. So, what was what was the first step?

Suzy May 15:40

I think the first step started even before we had kids. We knew that we would want to live abroad at some point. That gap year as a couple showed us that we can travel together. And and so then that was always an intention of ours. And then once we had kids and realized that, oh, travel with them can be kind of exhausting, especially if we're flying across the Atlantic. Let's choose a location where we can expose them to language. My husband already does speak three languages and we wanted the same for them. I wanted a chance to learn Spanish. He has an EU passport. So Spain was a clear choice in that regard. And also it gave us a chance to have a home base and a location that allows us to explore new things, but not as exhaustingly uh, not as like not have to travel as far or not have to be so exhausted when we travel. So the first step though was just having that intention early on and then coming up with a financial plan to that. We saved and invested before kids, and then in those first early years, even through the daycare years, I was still working um multiple jobs, and I slowly got rid of those jobs as we had more savings. We also rent our house out while we um travel. So, in a way that covers those costs at home while considering, while still being able to build some, uh have some opportunities back in our in our home base. And then also remote work was really important. With the pandemic, my husband went remote and then he found a company the next year that is fully remote, never even met his boss, has people working all over the world. And I know that some of those opportunities may seem limited and they are very competitive, but they are definitely out there. There are remote first companies that hire all over the world, let you work all over the world. Some of them may have restrictions on how much you're in a different country and things like that. So you want to be um really looking at those before you start applying. But if you combine the passport opportunities that we have within our family, remote work, being able to set up systems to rent out our house at home. We did that first through a test trip to Canada, two months in the summer of 2022 to set up all those systems to rent out our house. Uh, we made more money renting it out than we spent in Canada. And so that was this sign that, hey, we can do this. We can swap these expenses. We're now in Canada spending money on food and activities like we would in our home base, anyhow. But now we're doing it in a really cool location and seeing nature that um was very different than the Colorado Rockies, even though they were similar and accessible by car. So that gave us this clue that we could make this work for longer. And that's when the really slow travel came in and we're spending months at a time in Spain. So I think it's all about just, you know, crafting a vision for your family and then talking about it as a family, planning ahead. Some people choose to sell their home and that gives them a financial cushion, maybe because they never want to go back to that location anyhow, or they really do need to unlock some of that equity in order to fund their travels, but they can take a gap year while still having some financial reserves to come back to. Some people design their own businesses or online income to kind of bridge some of the gap between the income and the expenses. So there's a lot of different ways to do it. And I enjoy asking people about that on the podcast because then I get to learn as well. And then we can share that with other families so that they can get some ideas on how this is possible. And the last thing I'll say is things like home exchange and how house swapping and trusted house sitters and pet sitting are all ways that you can actually reduce some of those major expenses, uh, credit card points for flights. If you can reduce the flight costs and the housing costs, I mean, at that point, you're you're spending some of the same expenses that you would in your home base, and it can make it really affordable while having these new and cool opportunities as a family.

Todd 19:34

Yeah. Interesting note. I saw a guy on YouTube, I think he was on TikTok as well. He was in his 50s, single, lived up in the northeastern US, was just tired of the rat race, things were so expensive. He was spending all of his money on just living. And so he he had this dream of moving to Thailand or wherever. And he was moving to somewhere that was a lot cheaper, less expensive to live. And so he was like, Okay, cool. He didn't really have a plan though. He was like, Okay, when I get there, I'm gonna find a remote job. And he had talked to people online and was like, Okay, I'm gonna do this and that. He didn't really have a plan. And so he was there for a few months, ran out of money, ended up having a heart attack. And yes, the locals helped him, and you know, he was able to get medical care and stuff like that. But then it was like, Okay, I've got to get back to the US now because I can't work here. And he didn't really have any plans. He was just hoping that things would pan out for him, and then he ended up having to set up a GoFundMe to get money to just get back to the US. And yeah. So what I appreciated in when I was watching your videos and listening to your podcast is you put a lot of planning into it. You didn't just you're not winging it. So it's but well, when you've got a family, so you can't do that with kids, but uh you can plan it out, and it is possible to uh go live in foreign countries for long periods of time. So yeah, very interesting topic here. Yeah.

Suzy May 21:02

Yeah, and I'm I'm glad he was able to get back and hopefully can get his feedback under him. I always say, you know, the worst case scenario. I mean, there's a lot of I guess worst, worst case scenarios, but the worst case is yeah, we have to go back and do what we were doing before. And ideally, maybe uh things take off before then and we don't have to come back with like zero dollars. Um, I think it's very important to have things like emergency funds and diverse diverse assets that we can tap into if needed. And it's not always easy to manage rentals from a distance, but it does provide a little bit of income here and there. And of course, you know, jobs are not something you can always uh plan on. But if you, you know, my husband's worked hard to make him an important asset at his job. And so hopefully that continues as well. Um, I've been building up my business as well. So there's a lot of ways you can build some safety nets in there. And I think, yes, really important as a family to have those. As well. And it does help that I'm a bit of a planner. And so actually, we balance my husband's a little more of a what are we doing today type person. And so I'm like, okay, I got the vision and the plan, you know, obviously taking into account their opinions and their needs. But then in the day-to-day, I have also someone who says, okay, we also need to live and enjoy today as well. Because sometimes you can get too caught up in the plan as well. So I think it's important to balance the two. And having a strong emergency safety net fund that you can rely on and kind of a, hey, if this doesn't work out by this point, I'll come back. But I hope in the meantime he had some great experiences in Thailand and maybe learned and saw some things that would just give him some more motivation to get back out there when he can in the future for that for that gentleman.

Todd 22:43

Yeah. I mean, it's clickbait to hear these the bad stories. You see them on YouTube and it's like, oh. But when I watch the videos, so I I haven't done any slow travel myself, but it is interesting to watch the videos because maybe in the future my wife and I may choose to do that. But yeah, watching the the people that just wing it. I'm just like it's like, don't do that, folks. Make a plan. Yes, have a plan. Have something there that's gonna support you when you when you're overseas because you can't just go to a country and get a job. They won't let you. No, because you're taking a job from a local. So yeah.

Suzy May 23:23

Exactly. Exactly.

Todd 23:24

Now, is there anything that almost made you quit as you were or actually while you're planning, or even right in the midst of your slow travel journeys?

Suzy May 23:34

Yes. I was just talking about this on an episode when I was talking about renting out your house because we the right before we moved to Spain in 2023, we actually had people renting it out over the 4th of July week while we visited family in Minnesota. And there was a sewage backup followed by a burst water pipe and flooded our basement. I mean, less than two months before we're moving to Spain, we are gutting our basement and rebuilding it and putting in a new toilet three days before we left. So that was really stressful, I would say. And it never crossed my mind to cancel the trip. It was more just this intention. We got to get this done. And, you know, looking back, we learned a lot. Everything is figure out, is my quote from that summer. Um, and then we showed up in Spain, and actually the first day we were exhausted. We had some travel mix-ups going there, of course. And we had um a suitcase because we had a bunch of them. We had four of them, four small ones, two car seats, and we were moving into our place and exhausted, and we left one outside and it was gone. And thankfully, it was the one that had like ski gear and Christmas things and extra toiletries and not like clothing or essential computer stuff for my husband. But I that first night I was like, this is just crazy. Like, what are we doing? I'm jet lag, it's hot, our air conditioner broke, we just lost a whole suitcase of stuff. Um, and I remember thinking, we go back by by Christmas, it'll be fine. We'll just make the best of it, you know. And then here we are three years later. So you can work through difficult, challenging situations um, with just taking a deep breath, leaning on your support system. Yeah, this is where social capital is really helpful, helpful. Um, my family's really supportive of us. Um, they traveled a lot, you know, before kids. And then when we were a family when we were young. And so I think it's great to have people you can talk to about it that kind of understand and aren't just gonna tell you, well, why just go home? You know, they're gonna say, hey, it's okay to have hard days and don't quit on a hard day. Make that choice to shift your plans when it's a good day and you're thinking through. And because again, it's totally okay to say, I'm gonna, you know, stop traveling or take a break from traveling, or hey, we had some fun experiences. I'm gonna go back to what I was doing before, or new adventures. It's totally okay to shift gears. Not everyone travels full time forever and ever, but it is okay to take some time to think through that and not always like just give up because it was one bad day.

Todd 26:11

Right. You know, one of the it's a growth opportunity, I think, for especially folks in midlife. You get in your routine, you're used to your day-to-day. Some it's hard for some folks to just take a vacation and take a couple of weeks and go somewhere else and get out of their regular routine. So having those hard days is actually beneficial because after it's all said and done, the dust settles and you're looking back. It's uh it's almost like a growth period in your life.

Suzy May 26:39

So yeah, that's I think there's also there's also a phrase called type two fun, where it's the not the fun you're having in the moment, but later you look back. Uh you know, this is like hiking a challenging mountain where in the moment you're out of breath, your kids are whining, you know, you ran out of snacks. It's maybe not the most fun uh moment, but then looking back, you're like, wow, I'm really glad we did that. Or you can laugh about something later that you know that you only had that opportunity because of how challenging it was. So I I sometimes appreciate those type two fun opportunities, especially for my kids to realize not everything works out perfectly the first time and really developing that growth mindset of hey, I can figure this out, we can adapt, we can we can figure this out.

Todd 27:27

Right. And that's so beneficial for your kids because they see that and they become flexible in their thinking and they're able to handle changing situations. So good on you. That's uh that's cool with the kids. My wife and I, we like camping. And we haven't been camping much recently, but uh when the kids were small, we uh we went to a place called Oregon Inlet on the coast of North Carolina. Basically, you camp in the dunes, you set up a uh tent. But one time we we arrived at night and it was raining. I mean, it was just bad winds, torrential downpour. We're setting up this we're setting up our tent in the middle of the rain. It was crazy, but not fun at the time. But looking back, it was like, oh, that was cool. But yeah, the hard times are good.

Suzy May 28:13

So yeah, exactly. Are you how old are your kids now?

Todd 28:17

Oh, they're adults now. So my son is 23 and my daughter is 19. And by the way, she's studying nursing. She loves it.

Suzy May 28:23

Oh, that's great. Yeah. I mean, nursing is a career field. I will also say, you know, I stepped away from it to do some of the travel and I am not working right now, but I keep my my active license. And I know in some capacity, it may not be the number one job I want in a couple of years, but those skills I've developed over years working in the field do not go away. There will always be an opportunity. Cause I even recently looked into it and they're like, oh yeah, we'll just you know, train you up like a new grad in some ways and just see how much support you need to get you back into the swing of things. Because of course, in healthcare things do shift and change. But you can find flexible work or find different types of work. I've worked clinic, hospital, nights, days, weekends. There's just I do summer camp nursing still. So there's so much variety, which works for someone that likes a lot of variety. And you can also step away and come back at a certain point. Whereas there are some career fields, like my husband's in tech, and he feels like that would be a lot harder to take an extended period of time off. So I think it's great to design uh a career field, of course, that someone is passionate about and really interested in, but also one that may offer them some of that flexibility if that's what they're interested in.

Todd 29:33

Yeah. And this gets into the long-term planning. If you're wanting a lifestyle like this, you have to start thinking about it well in advance. Maybe go study something like nursing or some field that is applicable everywhere. Like your husband, the tech industry, I work in the tech industry as well. It's like it's stuff that you constantly have to keep changing and keeping up with things. Uh, but if you could find a career path that nursing or something like that where you can apply it anywhere. That's that's you know, it's part of your planning process, maybe acquiring skills that you can do work remotely with that, or yeah, just gotta think about those things and plan it out. But uh that's what I like about your your podcast and everything. You dig into those things that uh that help people to plan those things out.

Suzy May 30:20

So that's the thing. Teaching could be another career field that you could work internationally, or you have built-in summers. And I know teaching is uh underpaid, thankless job. The teachers that are in the profession are amazing and working so hard with the future generations and deserve more credit and money, but they also have some time built in or just opportunities. Um, there's a program called Boundless Life right now. They're hiring their summer camp counselors at places in Japan and Spain and Montenegro. You could do some really cool opportunities over those summer breaks while getting to maintain your home base and your your life back wherever your home is. So there's just a lot of different ways to to approach it if if building a life of more travel is important to you.

How YOU Can Start a Slow Travel Life

Todd 31:07

Yeah, my sister-in-law is uh, she was a teacher, she's retired now, and she just loved her summers off. It was a challenge dealing with the kids and their parents, but uh but her, the school district she worked in, they had a really good retirement plan. So she ended up uh retiring early and uh she and her husband moved to Florida and she enjoys travel and things like that. So yeah, but making those plans and arranging your life so that you can have those opportunities, you know, slow travel over the summer if you're a school teacher and things like that. And here in North Carolina, retirement for teachers is wonderful as well. You don't make that that much money when you're coming up. But if you plan out your finances, and I I was watching a Dave Ramsey uh episode and well he said it, he says it all the time, but he talks about some of the most frequent occupations for uh becoming millionaires are teachers because they've studied it, they know the game with finance, they save their money, they live below their means, and they end up retiring with millions in the bank. And they're only making sixty, eighty thousand dollars a year, maybe if if if they're fortunate. But uh yeah, you gotta plan that out. And it is possible. So I I appreciate that you're really just laying things out for people. This is how you can do it yourself, and it doesn't take millions in the bank, you just have to plan and adjust your lifestyle. So I appreciate that. But uh let's talk about how folks could start a journey down this path. If they're serious about doing the slow travel life, how do you recommend they start?

Suzy May 32:47

This is where you could start with determining your timeline, like at what age and stage for you or for your kids would you like to incorporate more travel? There are people traveling with babies and toddlers that love it. And I will say, looking back, I'm not too sad that with the pandemic, we kind of took two or three years off of travel when I had a toddler and a baby. And to be honest, I think that worked out okay because those ages can be, you just have to bring so much stuff, or it's just a little more exhausting, or the the time zone changes hit them even more. And they also really don't care where they are. And so local travel can be great, camping with the young kids is its own adventure, but you know, you're only an hour from home if you really need to go back. And so there's so many ways to start small with little kids. I think by you know kindergarten, elementary ages, is when kids start to get really curious about the world and their ability to soak up languages is really amazing. And so if you can, you know, again, every family's gonna design travel for their own, you know, interests. But if you can do some traveling in those elementary years, I will also say if you've been spending money on daycare or, you know, had one parent not working, but now like both are working again because kids are in school more or something, you actually might also financially be able to afford more travel. Yes, you got to pay for the kids' flights and things like that. There's again things like home exchange or pet sitting. My kids love to do trusted house sitters. We go to houses in the mountains of Colorado that have horses and chickens and things that I will never own, but it's fun to stay at a house for a week and explore all that for free, basically. And then, uh but yeah, so determining your timeline. And so for some people, they are planning far ahead. They say, I know I want to take a gap year in the middle school years or take advantage of the fourth grade free national parks pass if you're in the United States. And that gives you this time frame to say, okay, how much do I need to save up to fund this gap year or however long we want to travel? Can I switch to remote work in the meantime? You know, some of that stuff doesn't happen overnight. Can we set aside a chunk of savings that is more for not just our long-term planning, not our long-term investments? You know, maybe we've saved and invested enough that we can take the four asset breaks for that and we can put that money into our short-term travel goals. And then you could also talk about how to swap expenses, go to a lower cost country, um, set up that remote income now. And then you can look at how much is it going to cost to be in this location? And slow travel, it's amazing if you're staying in a location and you're booking one month accommodation. It often can be about the cost of two weeks of an Airbnb or booking.com apartment there. And so, you know, you're getting a lot more out of your same dollars if you stay in one location longer. You also can start utilizing public transit because you're there long enough to figure out the system versus in three days, you're like, oh, let's just take a taxi or something. So it gives you this chance to reduce your travel expenses and maybe even work. If you're slow traveling, you're gonna need some time to just have rest. You know, real life does happen around that as well. Whatever educational opportunities you want to include for your kids can also be helpful if you're in one location longer, whether that's languages, things like that. So I think it's really important to just define that vision for you, start to put those things in place, listen to other stories like on the podcasts and things. But it's also okay to say, okay, good for them, not for me. Like I've heard a lot of stories or a lot of things that families do that I'm like, wow, that's really cool. But I also know that that doesn't really align with what our values are. Like there's some families that do full-time cruising, which maybe someday it could be fun, but we've decided that that doesn't really offer us as much of a cultural opportunity when you're on this cruise ship. I mean, it's fun, right? You got all the activities. And so kids might love it, but there's other ways that we can get that, we feel like, whereas some families love to cruise. And so it's just about finding what works well for you, coming up with a plan. And then again, once you get started, you do a little bit and you're like, hey, that worked well, or we need to shift and adjust. And that's okay too, to shift and adjust as things as things come up. But I think that's really helpful too. Just um craft that vision first.

Todd 37:14

Yeah. And one thing that you just triggered is you got to know how much you're spending to fund your lifestyle right now. And you have to go back and make cuts if necessary. Now, some people just have been they're good at saving already, but some folks just don't know how much they're spending. And so if you're thinking about a lifestyle change like this and you have no idea how much you're spending right now, it's almost impossible to make a plan. So understanding how much you're spending. Also, uh in my mind, if you've identified a target country where you want to go stay, you need to figure out the tax situation there for people that are, you know, temporary visas and stuff like that. And here's a story a friend of mine, he works in the tech industry, but he's remote. Kids out of the house, and so he and his wife, they're just like, We're gonna go live in a foreign country. And so he's talking to his employer. Uh and in the tech industry, they will reduce your pay if you go live in a low-cost area of the world. And so he starts looking at these different countries, and his boss is like, Okay, cool. If you move there, your pay is gonna be this. And they're like, Oh goodness. So he goes, Okay, cool, Switzerland. Okay, they won't reduce my pay when I go to Switzerland. So they moved to Switzerland after the first year. The tax man came and said, Um, okay, cool, we're gonna tax your 401ks back in the US, we're gonna tax your house back in the US, we're tax they taxed everything. And this guy, the tax burden on him was just astronomical. And so he ended up staying two years, but it was like, eh, we're not staying in Switzerland.

Suzy May 38:50

And you want to take a look at that whole financial picture, absolutely. And this is where not just meeting with one tax lawyer from the target country, but multiple can be helpful because sometimes there's some ambiguity there. Um, and so it's just this is where also slow travel can actually help because if you actually move more often, you tend to not fall under the tax residency. Spain, it's like 183 days in a calendar year. And so if you look at what country and how you can stay there, but usually if you're there on a tourist visa, you're not going to become subject to tax residency there.

Speaker 2 39:23

Right.

Suzy May 39:24

And then, but as far as tracking expenses, that is absolutely right. And I will say you can make this system really easy by using Monarch. Monarch is a way to like an app that you can track expenses. Okay. But I found that I have just an Excel spreadsheet. I actually have it over here on my other screen because I was updating it today. I have the same Excel spreadsheet that I've been tracking every expense since 2018, just making a new monthly tap, copying it over, changing the dates. I've set up the columns the way I like. I use it now more as just understanding where we're at, keeping a tap on things. Um, but it does give you an opportunity to look ahead and be like, okay, what how much are we anticipating our needs will be for each of these major sections in our in our in our lives and then what's our income situation? And the I realized just by tracking it so closely that it's just part of my thought thinking. I don't need to wonder, do we have enough for that? Like I just already know kind of where we're at. And I think it's so important to have that information. Yes. And I'll say, like you on all your credit cards, you can have it send you an email when you reach like a $1 spending limit. And so as soon as I get that email, it's easy to open the Excel link that's on my home page and just type it into the right category. And so I find that it takes very minimal time to just keep a tap on our expenses. And like ATM feeds, I just put in a column. I don't like track, oh, I spend $5 in cash here. You know, that's just one column because it's not that much, depending on what country you're in. Usually you're able to use a credit card. And so that way is you can just track your expenses and know where you're at. And then we also do like a look at all of our financial assets like every quarter is good to know where things are at there. Do we need to make any shifts? Um, but not focusing too much on that because once you've set up those financial systems, they should just be cooking along in the background while you're out living life. And then, you know, hopefully those will continue to grow and save and invest. And so at some point we can retire. Um, so doing some of that initial planning, initial financial education can be really helpful. And then once you have a good system, you know, focus on the day to day and enjoying life as you go as well, because tomorrow's not always a given.

Todd 41:36

Right. And I like that you're frugal about what you're doing, a spreadsheet, minimal cost. So for sure.

Suzy May 41:43

I've done the Monarch, it's you know, like 60 bucks a year. And then I was like, I really don't need that because um, you know, of course, if you love looking at the data, which I do occasionally, of course, love to dive into that, but it takes time. And again, by tracking it for so long, I'm like, I don't need to spend more time on this when I could be pursuing my interests with my podcast or trip planning. I have some cool trips that I'm planning right now. Um, I'm hiking to the Camino sum next week and we're going to Italy at the end of the month. So there's, you know, it's you realize you don't want to spend an exorbitant amount of time on your finances once you set up proper systems and you feel like you've learned a lot of good, important things. And also listening to more than one source is helpful because you start to see these patterns. You're reading multiple books, you're like, okay, I start to see this pattern. If I, you know, increase my income, reduce my expenses, invest the difference in low-cost index funds over the long haul. I will, I will, I will do just fine and I can focus on living a high quality life now too. You know, my parents in their late 70s and 80s, and I'm gonna interview my mom for the podcast because they did a lot of travel before kids. And, you know, she has brought up recently that travel is a lot harder when you're in your 70s and 80s. You have a lot of other things to think about. And so it is really important to know that your seasons of life will shift. And there are things you're gonna want to do now that you might not want to later. And also, it's okay if you miss some things. You know, there's things I could have done in my 20s that now I'm like, well, that chip has sailed it. That's okay too. But if there's things that are really important to you this decade to put those on your radar and make those happen because your next decade and the decade after that may look very different.

Todd 43:24

Right. Yeah, you're you're talking about things. There's so much I think you're taking for granted, the wonderful things that you're doing to fund lifestyle, pay expenses, and things like that. It sounds like you've read that book, The Simple Path to Wealth, have you?

Suzy May 43:39

Yes, that's a good one for sure. And and Die with Zero, I read a a while ago too. The it's more just the concept than necessarily the nitty gritty of it. But I'll say, you know, with your daughter in nursing school, I worked as an oncology nurse for many years early on. So I was in my 20s and we had people who were young and you know, for no fault of their own, lots. Of things happen here they were with cancer, and that just completely shifted their life. And it just instilled in me very young in my 20s. Yeah. I mean, combined thankfully with my parents' frugality. So I didn't just go YOLO all my 20s. So you combined a little bit of frugality. So I was always like taking care of the future a little bit. But then seeing that, you know, tomorrow's not a given. There are things that can happen any time in our life. And not that we need to live in fear, not that we need to be super worried about that happening all the time. It's just finding that balance and saying, I need to enjoy today as well. And having that perspective is something that just comes with a little bit of time and wisdom and experience and travel can really play a role.

Todd 44:44

Yeah. And if you're planning your finances, if you have, if you've never done that, it's hard when you get started because it's not familiar. But then over time, and what I sensed uh with you, it's this is this is common. You start tracking your expenses, you know how much you're spending, so you get into the habit of being frugal. So you're not just out blowing money on crazy stuff. But if you're saving money, investing, living below your means, you have the finances to make the more expensive purchases that makes sense. So yeah, this is not a finance episode, but you have to consider the finances when you're you know thinking about lifestyle changes like this. But yeah, you know, discipline, if you have discipline finances, it just opens up opportunities and just frees you up to be able to say, you know what, I'm gonna walk away from this job and uh I'm just gonna go do this for the next year, two, ten, five, whatever. So yeah, very cool. I I appreciate what you're doing.

Suzy May 45:44

Yeah, I took off about a year unpaid when I was 28. And so, in a way, that was a year that I certainly could have been making more money and spending less money and advancing my career and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But now that I'm in my 40s, like that was a blip, right? And I let's see, during that year, I hiked to Ever Space Camp, which was something that I don't know. That was uh very challenging, but really cool opportunity. And I would like to get back to Nepal with my kids, but that was really challenging. Pandas are my favorite animal. I did this kind of expensive, but really worthwhile tour through China. We were working with pandas, visited friends in South Korea, um, like I said, volunteered in Vietnam, did some like just backpack traveling around Southeast Asia, went back to Europe with some friends, uh, went around Spain, had my passport stolen, just all these like memorable things that I would not trade in the world to have just, I don't know, maybe some more money in my 401k or something, right? Like, you know, you can take time off at points in your life and get back into the career, into the swing of things if that is important to you. Um, and yet you're gonna have these, these things will continue to stay with you. And I think that's really important as you get older to realize like like the days sometimes feel long, you know, the years are short, but also, you know, there are things that we need to do at certain points of life, our life, because things will shift.

Todd 47:17

Yeah. Yeah. And you're not some people might think, oh, well, I've got to amass this this amount of wealth before I can start this. No, you don't. And you've laid it out. You've you just changed your life in the in midstream. You didn't you didn't amass millions of dollars and then say, okay, now I can do this.

Suzy May 47:36

Yeah.

Todd 47:36

And if you're waiting for that day to come, it's never gonna happen.

Suzy May 47:40

So and I'm kind of glad that I wasn't following financial podcasts at that time or reading books about how to optimize your life necessarily, because maybe I would have said, Oh, you know, maybe this isn't the most financially smart thing to do. Um, but I had been working, saved us some money, you know, just a solo person traveling can really be quite affordable sometimes. And so I will say, you know, it was just really important to know that I can do these things now. And so I'm happy in hindsight that I didn't give up those opportunities. And so some people now nowadays might be saying, Oh, I got it, like knock out all this debt before I do anything. And yeah, high expense debt, take care of that. But low expense debt, maybe, you know, it's okay to tackle that with a plan instead of just like nose to the grind because burnout is real. I got a little burned out during COVID working in healthcare. And it's been really nice to be able to step away and know that like I want to go back at some point because I know that it'll be easier. Like my kids will be older or just they'll have different interests. You know, it's just important to know that. Um, I also think watching my parents work into their 60s, like in some way, working part-time longer, whether that's passion project work, volunteer work, that can be really good for your mind and your soul at those ages and stages in life. So it's not like this rush to retirement because you also need to retire to something, not just from something.

Helping Others Start Their Slow-Travel Journeys

Todd 49:08

Right. Yeah. And you you have to dedicate yourself to something. You can't retirement is not just sitting on the couch watching TV. That's that's a slow death. An early death, I would think. But uh yeah, not you've started helping others on this journey and you've alluded to it, but can you talk about some of the work you're doing to help other folks?

Suzy May 49:31

I think the podcast is a great way to get inspiring stories and hear about how other families have done that. And then I do one-on-one financial education. I've worked with um clients that I've done pop-ups with with their family. And for example, one of the families, she's an immigrant to the US. So understanding the US retirement system is a whole new ball game. And yeah, it took me years to become, I feel like, financially confident in that and some training with the financial education certificate. And I just signed up for an awesome uh externship this summer. So I'm excited to continue my skills in this financial space as well. But that's great to work one-on-one with someone because then we can, in a confidential setting, talk actual numbers. And I think that's where the magic can happen in someone's life is that we can remove some of the shame to all the money, understand the money scripts that we were growing up, growing up with and how that has affected us, increase our knowledge, put that into action, have some accountability with someone who's checking in with us. So I love working one-on-one. Um, I plan to someday do like a group and different things like that, but one-on-one is just such a great way to work with someone and see them make progress. And at the end, they're just so excited to say, like, hey, look what I've done. I've made progress, I've moved in the right direction. Right. And honestly, usually the investment in financial coaching, financial education pays itself in the dividends that you will financially and just in your confidence level. It's one of those things that I'm like, I think this is worth investing in. Like health, wealth. I mean, there are certain things that you we should invest in because it's just really important to our long-term uh health and financial health.

Todd 51:15

100%. Totally agree. And a lot of times we just don't know what the situation is with the finances, and then you get good news. It's like, oh, you're doing pretty well. So great job. So and if you're not doing so well, hey, you need help making the adjustments. So yeah. And it it's always helpful just to sit down with an expert and just say, you know what, help me here.

Suzy May 51:39

That's something I've utilized in a lot of different ways in my life, especially as an adult. I'm like, you know what? What are the things I'm not good at? What are the things I don't love doing? Like cleaning house is not my favorite thing. And so you know, we can outsource things to other people as we get older and more wise and start to realize what's important to us. So I think that's a big part of saying it's okay to spend money on the things that make my life easier and improve my quality of life and help me be a stronger and healthier person.

Todd 52:10

Excellent. Well, that's a good place to wrap it up. I I really appreciate your time, Susie. It's uh it's been edifying. So great stuff.

Suzy May 52:19

Okay. Well, thank you. And thanks for sharing all about, you know, it's important to talk about the the paths we take, especially in midlife as we're navigating sometimes shifting, shifting goals and interests. And I hope that there is some inspiration to be taken away from people that are are doing stuff differently and and that you can do this too if it's a little nerve-wracking or scary that it it's okay to to try new things.

Where to Find Suzy May

Todd 52:46

Yeah. So uh check out Susie's website. It's susiemaywonder.com. She's also got a podcast called wonderworldschool.com. And then I'm gonna include a link. Uh it's a Beacons AI link where you can if you need help with your finances, you can uh work with Susie here. Uh, but we'll include those links in the description. So thank you so much for your time, Susie. We really appreciate that.

Suzy May 53:10

Thank you so much, Tom.

Todd 53:12

Here are my takeaways. So we've heard Susie's story. She enjoyed a good life in America, but then she and her husband just decided to become slow travelers. They live uh all over the place throughout the world. And uh if that's something you're interested in, you can do that too. Maybe you're not planning on becoming a world traveler, but maybe you just need help with finances. That's okay too. You can work with Susie on that. But overall, if you're questioning the path you're on and you've considered a lifestyle change, Susie can help out with that. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a review and share it with your friends. Until next time, see you on the path.